*gasp* A theatre!
Wait! What’s your rush? What’s your hurry?
You’re in for such a treat— thought that they were closed—
Hang on a minute, go and sit! Sit you down! SIT!
They’re so excited, they haven’t seen an audience for months—
Did you come in for a show, folks?
Do forgive them, they’re putting Sondheim on the stage…
What was that? No, it’s Sweeney not the plague— and by God— that’s— good!
If you’ve come in for a pie…well you’re in luck… we’ve got priest Director! And Actor! Times two! (No, you don’t get buy one get one…) as we sit down with Other Voices Theatre and two of their actors as well as the director to discuss all the delicious and sordid details of their upcoming production of Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street.
So very excited to be backstage here with you all, right in the middle of a rehearsal where you’re actually running Act I of Sweeney Todd, so I know that your answers…much like Mrs. Lovette’s meat pies…will be fresh!
Steve Cairns: So I’m Steve Cairns, last name like the rock-piles, and I’m playing Sweeney Todd in this production of Sweeney and I’m also the Artistic Director for Other Voices Theatre.
Karen Heyser Paone: I’m Karen Heyser Paone and I’m playing Mrs. Lovette. I’ve been with OVT for some time.
Amy Heb: I’m Amy Heb. And I’m the director for Sweeney Todd.
You look familiar… Ms. Director Lady…
Steve: Think Misery.
Amy: (quoting Misery) I’m your number one fan…
*scooching chair further away from Amy* Yep. Now I remember! You were sufficiently creepy and frightening in that role. Why does this not surprise me to see you directing something equally dark and creepy? But Misery was arguably the most suspenseful and scary thing I’ve seen on stage since I was in the UK in The West End seeing The Woman in White back in ’21.
Amy: Thank you.
Okay, now that we’re all established with the who’s who, what is the impetus to be a part of or come out and audition for or direct Sweeney Todd?
Steve: It’s a classic show that up until this year, I’d only seen it done sparsely. Of course, same thing with the show we just closed, SpongeBob… nobody else had done it and now of course everybody is doing it. There’s a bunch of Miserys too. It’s going in cycles. But as far as Sweeney goes, I’ve always wanted to see it done here at Other Voices Theatre, and we’ve never been able to get the rights. But we finally got the rights and I said, “let’s do it.” Apparently the opened the flood gates, because everybody is doing it. But the fact of the matter is, Sweeney is a different type of show than most shows that we’ve done here in the past. We’ve done Misery, which is darker, and of course this will be a dark show. And that’s changing our landscape as a theatre, and that’s how I look at it. That’s one of the reasons I really wanted to get it on stage here.
Karen: I’ve done Sweeney before. I’ve done it at The Washington County Playhouse, I played Fogg from the asylum. And at Authentic Community Theatre, in Hagerstown, I played Mrs. Lovette a few years ago. And now I’m doing it again here. I wanted to do it because this role does scream to me, and I like doing it. But also, Authentic Community Theatre only does two performances of the main stage shows that they’re producing at The Maryland Theatre, so to have nine chances to do it is just fantastic.
That is fantastic! Amy, why is this your directing passion project?
Amy: I knew it was going to be one heck of a challenge and I was up for that. I wanted to try it. I absolutely love this show, and as my past shows might indicate, I have a darkness about me. As Steve puts it, I was going to take my dark talents from stage and put them into directing. Now I don’t sleep in a coffin or anything. Yet. It’s so classic and it’s such a great time of year for this show. Everybody’s looking for something a little spooky and something a little dark. And with the buzz on Broadway, this was the perfect time to roll this out. I was so excited when the opportunity arose and Steve said “would you?” and I said “I would” and here we are.
These are all excellent things. And I’m glad to hear that this is a big, passion project for all of you guys. What is it that you are loving most about this process?
Steve: For me, I’ve done this show twice before— I was Anthony in college a long time ago and I got to play as Judge Turpin in a small production down in Potomac. Sweeney has always been the role that I’ve wanted to do because of the challenge of it. It’s a very physical role, it’s a very challenging role vocally, and it’s dark. I’m typically a comedic actor. That’s one of my things that I like to do. So this is a real challenge for me, going to the dark side and being a brooding character. It’s a huge, huge challenge. And to be honest, I didn’t initially realize how physical the role was, there’s a lot of tension built into him. And that’s been a huge part of the challenge for me but I’m loving it.
What are you finding that you’re loving most, Karen? And what is your biggest challenge?
Steve: Besides having to work with me?
Karen: Well I was going to say that… but besides working with Steve… the thing that I’m loving most… wow. Well it’s so different playing against a different Sweeney. The differences in the characters are so stark that it’s making me dig deeper to find out how to relate to Steve. It’s just so much fun, I’m just having so much fun working with him.
Steve: I feel the same way for you.
Aww. Now, Amy, what’s the thing your loving the most or what’s your biggest challenge as a director for this show?
Amy: I’m loving this cast. I’m loving the dedication, I’m loving the talent that’s coming out; they’ve been great to work with. We’re in that part where it’s frustrating because things are moving a little slower than we all want them to but it’s part of the process. This is a huge show. Massive. And like the Music Director is very fond of saying (Paul Cabel) they have to think like musicians first. He is absolutely fantastic and this show would not be anywhere near where it is without him. He has been breaking down the music and this show is 85% music or 90% music? And everything is underscored. So there’s your challenges, it’s the timing. For these guys, I can’t even imagine trying to find the place to come into, because I’m not a musician and I would be lost the moment I stepped onto stage if I were acting in this particular performance. I am so grateful that we have such a talented group that is really willing to work it through and just figure out where things are. The challenge really truly is the timing and making sure you get everything in. It can be a little bit of a nightmare. Sometimes it really feels like a nightmare, but we go back, we work through it until we get it and we’re just going to keep repeating until we get it right.
What is it about the character about the character of Benjamin Barker/Sweeney Todd that you, Steve, find you are relating to the most? And what are you bringing to that or taking away from him when you go home at the end of the day?
Steve: The pain he feels of loss. I’m drawing a lot on loss recently that I’ve had that I can pull from and feel that— not sadness, necessarily— but emptiness. I think he’s a very empty character and that’s why he’s got to fill it with rage and with revenge. There are seasons of life where you’ve gone through that and I feel like I really identify with that void and that emptiness that he feels.
I’d say that what I bring to it— like I said, I like comedy— I think there’s points where he can be funny without being campy. There’s a glance or a look where there can be some humor, even if its dark humor. I’m trying to find those moments in time where I can find a rye moment where he can be sarcastic, especially when Lovette starts talking about wearing white. I think that’s something that I get to bring to the table as well.
What I take home with is? I’ve got to be honest, I take home this sense of accomplishment. Every night when I get through singing some of this stuff, I get that sense of accomplishment because it’s tough music. I really feel like Paul has equipped us. We— me and Karen— have both worked really hard outside of here to really bring our own voice to the characters and I think that’s what I take home with me.
What is it that Mrs. Lovette is bringing to you and that you are relating to in her, what are you bringing to her, and what are you taking away from her when you leave her at the end of the day?
Karen: A lot of people when they play Mrs. Lovette either play her really sexual or really cute. I didn’t want to do either of those things. But I’m putting a little bit of both of those into my character. With Sweeney, she’s very coquettish and touchy-feely. It’s trying to find that nice balance in her. She is really the architect of everything that is going on. It’s trying to find those little moments where you can see the wheels turning and see her kind of go “and now we’re going to do this.” And then that leads to a big old can of worms. That’s what I’m trying to do. I hope I am. Miss Director?
Amy: You’re doing wonderful.
Karen: Okay, great! What I’m bringing home from Nellie Lovette is exhaustion.
Steve: That’s what I meant by ‘sense of accomplishment.’
Karen: Like Steve said, it is a sense of accomplishment, but it is also exhausting. It’s a really exhausting show. It’s so heavy and there’s just so many words. Just so many words! And it’s not just the script, it’s the score. And with Sondheim, he’ll change a word or a phrase, and you have to remember where the hell it is. It’s just very difficult work.
Steve: Even so for Karen. If you look at the script, she’ll have a speech that’s four or five lines long and my response is just “yes.” Which I think is perfect.
Excellent. Now, Amy, you are not taking a character to the stage or bringing one home with you at night, but when you leave, what is it that’s keeping you up at night?
Amy: I don’t think we have that long. There’s a lot of challenges to this. Obviously our set is a challenge. Our Set Designer, my husband Lee Heb, who was also the gentleman who designed Misery.
See, now I’m going to be expecting perfected brilliance for the Sweeney set because there was such perfected brilliance for the Misery set.
Amy: Oh and you’ll get it. Now Lee has gone with a little bit more of a minimalistic set just because there are so many moving parts. He’s taking just a little bit of that minimalism in his approach because there are so many different scenes and locations. But the cool things that you need we have. Like the barber chair. We have body drops.
But do you have blood. That’s the real question. I was scarred for life years ago when I saw a ‘bloodless’ Sweeney Todd way down in Baltimore somewhere.
Amy: Do we have— seriously? Do you remember how much blood there was in Misery? We’ve got lots of blood. So much more blood. SO MUCH BLOOD. It’s going to be fantastic. And we’re going to be able to do all of that kind of stuff. What keeps me up at night is that I worry for these guys. And I’m not just talking about these two, I mean as a whole. Everybody is working so very hard. There’s nothing that I can do while they’re on-stage to help them get into where it is they need to be. All I can do is try to make it look good. That’s what kind of keeps me up at night, just worrying for everybody else. Of course, I have everybody coming at me saying, “I’m concerned about this, I’m concerned about that.” And then I try to come up with solutions to those problems that will help those people get to a place where they’re going to feel comfortable about whatever it was they were concerned about. Other than that, I do eventually fall asleep. Nothing’s keeping me up until 3:00 in the morning… only about 2:30. Hard stop at 2:45.
Is there a moment in the show that defines the show for you, Steve, what it’s like to get to finally play this pinnacle, bucket-list role, and what is that moment?
Steve: I’d say my favorite part of the show is the least amount of words that I’m using. That’s when Lovette is describing what happened to my wife and I’m trying to feel it and react to it. I think that moment for me, though very early in the show, to me it sets the tone for how much he’s lost. That’s where I take it from there and try to carry that through the rest of the show. It stops being about loss and starts being about revenge. That moment, that one moment— I can’t wait for it every night because I know that’s where I get to tee myself up and really rev to go.
What about you, Karen? Personal defining moment that really speaks to you?
Karen: Honestly? The end of Act I. The end of “A Little Priest.” When he has the cleaver and I have the rolling pin, it feels like, for Mrs. Lovette, everything has come together. Everything is perfect now and everything is going to be perfect from now on. Knowing how she ends at the end of the show, it’s just everything is kind of rolling toward it after that. Act I is her putting all the pieces into place. Act II is everything is falling apart.
It’s almost like everything is going up in smoke.
Steve: Haha!
Every once in a while, I’m funny. Now, Amy. What is the moment in the show that defines at its core your vision for this production?
Amy: Wow! One moment? Where it really starts to get me is, they have a song were Lovette reveals his razors, and it’s called “My Friends.” The way that it goes is he’s talking about his passion, this is his salvation, this is where it’s going to happen and he’s got you now. It comes together and for me, it always gives me chills. And there’s another moment— now this isn’t really a defining moment but it’s important because it’s a moment that a lot of theatres cut when they produce this show. We’re doing a song, and it’s just entitled “Johanna”—
SHUT THE FRONT DOOR NO YOU’RE NOT.
Amy: We are. Oh yes we are. But we’re calling that song “The Mia Culpa.” Now Andrew (playing Judge Turpin, Andrew Shifler) has worked very, very hard on it, it is a very difficult number. Not only is it difficult but it’s a very vulnerable thing. And we’re not pulling out any stops. It’s going to be a very gritty part of the show because a lot of theatres don’t do it. I’ve never seen a production of this show where that number gets performed. It is just such a tough song. And I’m not saying that any of the other ones are not but that one just has— it’s extra tough.
These songs in here, even the ones that everyone knows— from either seeing it on stage or from the movie years ago which did popularize it— but they’re deceptively difficult. You would think they’re easy until you start hearing everybody sing. The ensemble, good lord! They have to pop in with all sorts of strange things in odd places. But it’s going to be fascinating and wonderful when it completely gets to the place where everybody is comfortable and having a good time with it.
What is your favorite flavor of meat pie?
Steve: So Shepherd’s pie. I also really like steak & kidney pie…
Oh. That’s not how I thought was going to go.
Steve: Oh! You mean— oh-ho, you mean that kind of meat pie. I see. Well, wait, Karen, what’s your real answer?
Karen: My edible answer is mincemeat. But my favorite kind of pie? Techie.
Steve: ooh. That’s a good one. If we’re going that route— stage manager pie!
Yeah if I have to throw for that, I’m going Director. 100%.
Amy: Oh are you kidding me? Actor! They always arrive overdone! Just kidding. I wouldn’t bake any of them into a pie. Today.
What has getting to take on the role of Sweeney taught you about yourself, Steve? As a performer, as a human being, a person involved in musical theatre, what is your personal takeaway from this experience?
Steve: I’d say what I’ve learned about myself is a performer is that I have more in me than I thought I did, especially when it comes to finding a character and being able to blend it out and make it bigger and bigger and bigger. For me as a person, it sounds really campy, but one of the things I was talking about with my two younger daughters was this concept of revenge. They asked me what the show was about and I told them revenge. And they said revenge is a good thing and I said, “no, revenge is not a good thing.” To be honest, that revenge comes from pain that this character can’t let go. And you’ve got to let it go or else you’re just going to be consumed by it. That’s my deep, psychological answer. Now, as a guy in theatre, there are very few roles that a guy my age can really sink their teeth into— and no pun intended— that are meaty. This is a very, very challenging role, especially for community theatre, and they are rare for men my age. This is one of the toughest roles that’s ever been written, to be honest with you, so it’s a very challenging performance and I’m excited to get to do it.
Karen, what has getting to take on the role of Mrs. Lovette taught you about yourself, as a performer, as a human being, as a person in musical theatre? What is your big personal takeaway from this experience?
Karen: That there is no room for cockiness. There is no room for it. It is the most humbling show. If you think you’re awesome, then you get this score in front of you, you realize you suck. It’s so difficult. Like I said before, it’s a lot of words. But at the same time it’s also a lot of emotions, it’s a lot of playing around, and it’s just a lot as a whole. That’s kind of what my take is. Even having played this role before, the only thing that’s done for me, is let me know what all of the choral stuff is. I could sing any of the alto lines in the ensemble. But having done it before, I thought, “oh this won’t be that hard.” But it’s a totally different show. It’s not like doing a cookie-cutter version. That’s what I’m taking away from it.
Amy, as the Director, as a person in theatre, as someone whose wheelhouse is not necessarily musical theatre, what is your big personal takeaway from this experience?
Amy: It’s definitely the experience. This is my first musical that I have directed. And I chose this one. I’ve directed many other things but this is the first musical. Musicals have never been my strong suit. I’m really great at stage managing but that’s different. Paul, my musical director, has been invaluable. Not only has he done this show before but he’s a music teacher in his own right. He’s very much my right hand. The majority of the rehearsals have been music and I’m finally getting to the point where I can do my directing part. It’s a little late in the game for it but it had to work this way because the music for this show is so important. The whole production crew has just been fantastic and patient. And it’s been a wonderful experience learning from Donna Grim, who owns the dance studio here where we’re rehearsing and performing. She has staged things, a lot of our big numbers to make them look very sharp. So in the end I’ve learned a lot. I would definitely do some things differently next time but there are definitely things I wouldn’t change. It’s been a great experience, I’ve learned a lot, and I’m looking forward to completing it.
These are all fantastic things to hear. Why do you want people to come out and see Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street here at Other Voices Theatre?
Steve: It’s a great damn show.
Karen: Because its creepy and its perfect for the season. I think people will be impressed with the talent.
Amy: I don’t have anything to add. Those are two perfect answers.
If you could ask Stephen Sondheim one question about this show, and no, we’re not busting out the Ouija Board, but if you could…what would you ask him?
Steve: I would ask Sondheim why do you hate sopranos?
Amy: Oh. My. Goodness.
That’s a legit question! What about you, Karen?
Karen: I would ask him why he decided to torture Angela Lansbury?
Amy: I would want to ask him was he aware of how ahead of his time he was when he wrote this? Because it is absolutely insane. This is so far ahead of where it was when it came out.
If you could play anyone in Sweeney Todd, vocal capability, gender, age, etc. not a factor in the role you choose, who would you want to be?
Amy: Pirelli! No doubt about it: Pirelli. He’s the comic relief. He’s the big, flamboyant thing. He is the one character that has the opportunity to really take it over the top and that’s what I do, so yeah, Pirelli.
Steve: Based on the fact that I’ve played Anthony and I’ve played the Judge, I would have to say Pirelli as well. Again, completely different vocal roles. Sweeney is way down here and I’m primarily a tenor. Yet I’m singing these really low bass lines as Sweeney but Pirelli’s song seems like such a fun song to sing. And to be able to play different accents as that character, I’d love it.
Do we have a table of Pirelli’s here?
Karen: No. The Beggar Woman. I’d want to be the Beggar Woman. Because it’s a fun role. She just gets to pop in and out and make sexual innuendos—
Steve: And hump Anthony.
Karen: Yeah, and hump Anthony. And he’s really cute, so what more could you want? Beggar Woman!
Perfect! Now, if you had to sum up your experience of doing Sweeney Todd with Other Voices Theatre in just one word, which word do you use?
Amy: Satisfaction.
Steve: Love.
Karen: Difficulty.
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street plays October 6th 2023 through October 22nd 2023 with Other Voices Theatre Other Voices Theatre at The Performance Factory— 244-B South Jefferson Street in Frederick, MD. Tickets are available by calling the box office at (301) 662-3722 or by purchasing them in advance online.
